Backpage - Argh!

[Martimus]

This might, in part, qualify as a rant but I'm going to try to avoid that!

I had found a M&P 9 Pro Series pistol on Backpage. The current owner had already replaced the sights, and replaced the stock trigger and sear with aftermarket Apex parts. To me this was looking like a truly awesome deal and exactly what I was looking for. I traded emails with the gentleman asking questions about the pistol. After a few emails I asked when we could meet for me to look at the weapon. It was then that things went downhill. His responses became cryptic. For whatever reason, he would not provide me a date and time that we could meet. I finally emailed him stating a time and a place that I could meet him on Saturday morning. He responded by telling me Sportsman's Warehouse at 27th Avenue and Yorkshire at 8am. Well I told the gentleman that I live in South Chandler so that would have made for a really EARLY morning for me. Further I had to stop at my bank for cash. So what was his response? He simply stopped returning my emails.    And in looking on Backpage he's still advertising the weapon but has since reduced his price. So either he simply didn't want to sell me the pistol... or he didn't want to compromise and meet at a time and place convenient to both of us.   I thought I was being respectful and polite in email...  Argh!  Never will I understand people!   

Well unfortunately I had a hole burning in my pocket (not that much is left in my pocket mind you) so I went to Gun Broker to see if I could find something of interest. I happened onto the listings for Mo Money Pawn at 12th Street and Indian School. They had a full size M&P 9 for sale at a great price! And what made it better was that it came with 3 17-round magazines. Well I decided to drive over to Mo Money Pawn today to take a look at it... and somehow it followed me home!   



What got to me, however, was the condition of that pawn shop. Now I'm old enough to remember the Jewel Box on Central. They weren't always the nicest people to deal with but the place was clean and organized. Mo Money Pawn, on the other hand, seemed like a cluttered maze in comparison. The gun section was hidden and I had to get someone to point me in the general direction. When I got there I found lots of neat toys but not the weapon I was looking for. As it turned out, the pistol I was looking for was not on display so one of the employees had to go search through their store room to find it. The employees of Mo Money Pawn seemed pretty decent to deal with... but I was surprised at the layout of the shop. And I won't even go into some of the really "interesting" people that were walking in the door with stereo's, TV's, and game consoles in tow. 

Oh and they have a sign on the door that says no loaded or concealed weapons! 

[Amplifiedsoul]

After a few emails I asked when we could meet for me to look at the weapon. It was then that things went downhill. His responses became cryptic. For whatever reason, he would not provide me a date and time that we could meet.

Right there is enough that it would make me very leery of this person. Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Sportsman's Warehouse open at 9 am? (The one is mesa does except on sundays which is 10 am) Just a thought. Maybe the person wanted to meet you in an empty parking lot? Sure it'll be daylight, but it's pretty empty. Maybe I'm overthinking it, but I'd get real nervous if they act that way when trying to meet. Only reason I know the hours of the mesa one was because I did a trade earlier today at 9:30 am thinking it would be open. Ooops! I was wrong. But it was a trade with a member of this forum so I wasn't too worried.

[Guy1az]

Interesting story.  People on Backpage can be a trip.
It worked out for the best it seems.  Pawn shops can be interesting ...but I have never seen a firearm in one at any where near a reasonable price but sounds like you had better luck.

[Guy1az]

We had an instance here in Tucson last year where a buy from Backpage or Craigslist was set up in a parking lot... Like you describe... And the guy was robbed.

[Martimus]

Right there is enough that it would make me very leery of this person. Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Sportsman's Warehouse open at 9 am? (The one is mesa does except on sundays which is 10 am) Just a thought. Maybe the person wanted to meet you in an empty parking lot? Sure it'll be daylight, but it's pretty empty. Maybe I'm overthinking it, but I'd get real nervous if they act that way when trying to meet. Only reason I know the hours of the mesa one was because I did a trade earlier today at 9:30 am thinking it would be open. Ooops! I was wrong. But it was a trade with a member of this forum so I wasn't too worried.

You may be on to something...  To be honest I hadn't really read too far into this persons reasons.  He said in his email that he had a 9am pre-surgery consultation.  In hindsight that probably should have set off an alarm bell or two with me.  A doctors appointment on a Saturday?  Yikes!  I have trouble finding doctors in their office on Fridays anymore...  The only doctors I'd expect to be working on a Saturday would have been at a hospital or urgent care.

[Martimus]

Interesting story.  People on Backpage can be a trip.
It worked out for the best it seems.  Pawn shops can be interesting ...but I have never seen a firearm in one at any where near a reasonable price but sounds like you had better luck.

While I waiting for the paperwork to be completed, I was looking at some of their rifles.  This pawn shop had 3 Hi-Point 775TS carbines... one of which looked to have an ATI stock and a price tag of around $200.  Needless to say I was tempted to drain my savings futher on that carbine just to turn it around and sell it in a month or two...

[Thernlund]

Pawn shops can be interesting ...but I have never seen a firearm in one at any where near a reasonable price but sounds like you had better luck.

^^^ Indeed, pawn shops can be VERY interesting.  I hit up shops infrequently, when there's one along my path.

It's especially interesting that the 12th Street and Indian School shop was mentioned.  I took these pictures in that very shop many years ago...







Funny stuff.   

I didn't see any deals when I went in.  Mostly way overpriced.  But that was a long time ago.  Maybe they finally figured it out.  Heh.


As to the Backpage seller, that's weird behavior.  I can't imagine what he was thinking.  Anybody selling a gun on Backpage has to know that just because someone is buying a gun doesn't mean that don't have a gun.  More than likely the exact opposite in fact.  So my first inclination isn't to think it a robbery attempt necessarily.

Maybe he planned on some kind of mail/Paypal/cash transfer scam and lost his nerve when you wanted to meet.

Oooorrrr... the answer isn't always shady.  Maybe it was simply that he was skittish about it and something felt off to him about the sale.  Misunderstandings happen, and you never know what others are thinking.   


-T.

[Amplifiedsoul]

Very true above, could just be a misunderstanding.

I'm more of a better safe than sorry type of person.

One thing I've learned is criminals could be very bold in what they do. Especially when they want drug money. Baiting someone to an empty lot who will be bringing a few hundred dollars is feasable. Even if the person may be armed. I worked some security in Auwatukee several years ago. A month after leaving the job an armored car guard was shot and killed while walking a bag into harkins. That was planned and the assailant knew he was armed.

Misunderstanding? Probably.
Setup? Less likely but possible.
Worth the risk? Not to me personally.

[Martimus]

In reality I guess it's water under the bridge at this point.  Assuming that the seller was legitimate I wish him luck in selling his pistol.  While I would have liked to have snagged the described weapon, I'm OK with plan B as it was $200 cheaper.  I got myself a M&P9 for a price less than what I've seen in any LGS I've been in over the last few months.  Was it a great deal or a loss leader?  To be honest I don't know.  All I know is that it's now mine... 

And over the next few months I suppose I'm going to learn enough about it to be able to replace the sights, the sear, the striker block, and maybe even the trigger.   

[Thernlund]

Sweet pistol BTW.  Congrats!   


-T.

[Martimus]

Sweet pistol BTW.  Congrats!   


-T.

Thanks T! 

[Coyotesfan97]

$750 for a Glock 27  Yikes! 

[Amplifiedsoul]

Well, sounds like it worked out for the best then. Congrats!

[Harm]

I am crying over that sign for the AK-47 

As to the seller one more thought.  I've bought & sold a lot of guns that way.  And I'm always amazed at how many guys don't know the law regarding a sale so think they're being secretive doing it in the parking lot or straight up conspiracy guys who don't want anyone to know.  Now you have every right to be suspicious and wary - I've heard at least one member on this board describe an attempted BP robbery - situational awareness and friends w guns is the key. 

[Martimus]

Well, sounds like it worked out for the best then. Congrats!

Thanks!

I am crying over that sign for the AK-47 

As to the seller one more thought.  I've bought & sold a lot of guns that way.  And I'm always amazed at how many guys don't know the law regarding a sale so think they're being secretive doing it in the parking lot or straight up conspiracy guys who don't want anyone to know.  Now you have every right to be suspicious and wary - I've heard at least one member on this board describe an attempted BP robbery - situational awareness and friends w guns is the key.

And there's a business on Northern (and in Mesa) that can help with keeping documentation of transactions such as this....... Spy Headquarters! 

[acetum]

Oh and they have a sign on the door that says no loaded or concealed weapons! 

Was the sign in compliance with 4-229?

http://www.azleg.gov/ars/4/00229.htm

if it just says "no loaded or concealed weapons" the sign has no merit... just like the one's at COSTCO...

then again my weapon is concealed.. unlike some people I've seen walking around .... lol

[JesseL]

Was the sign in compliance with 4-229?

http://www.azleg.gov/ars/4/00229.htm

if it just says "no loaded or concealed weapons" the sign has no merit... just like the one's at COSTCO...

4-229 only applies to places licensed to serve alcohol.

Signs alone at other establishments don't carry any force of law, but:
http://www.azleg.state.az.us/ars/13/03102.htm

A. A person commits misconduct involving weapons by knowingly:
...
10. Unless specifically authorized by law, entering any public establishment or attending any public event and carrying a deadly weapon on his person after a reasonable request by the operator of the establishment or the sponsor of the event or the sponsor's agent to remove his weapon and place it in the custody of the operator of the establishment or the sponsor of the event for temporary and secure storage of the weapon pursuant to section 13-3102.01; or

[acetum]

indeed.... don't know what I was thinking, good correction...

Then again what constitutes a reasonable request?  With all the yahoo's suing anything and everything..

I wonder if that's ever been challenged in court?  "reasonable request"   lol

[coelacanth]

I think a reasonable request would involve the owner of the establishment showing me the secure storage area and the receipt to be issued to me for the weapon before I complied with it.  If the weapon is not properly secured or is to be handled by a person unfamiliar with safe gun handling protocol then I believe such a request would be considered unreasonable.

[Martimus]

Not being a legal eagle my opinion likely doesn't amount to much... but my feeling is that any sign posted where they can be easily seen would potentially consistitute the basis of a reasonable request in the eyes of the court.  My guess is that the sign would likely carry more weight, however, if it cited ARS 13-3102.

As for secured storage, I'm thinking this could be where it gets dicey.  After all is there a specific definition of what consistutes "temporary and secure storage" of the weapon.  Are they referring to small gym lockers where each individual weapon can be secured separately from all others?  Or a locked cabinet complete with gun locks and ID tags?  In looking at ARS 31-3102, it really does not specify what would constitute "secure storage".

From what I recall, the pawn shop had a secure cabinet behind the counter.  As for Costco, don't they usually have a secure cage near the front of the store?  And lockers in the employee break room?  In any event, since we are talking about a privately held business on private property, I would not be surprised if the courts provided the business owners plenty of latitude if the issue were to end up in court.

Would it hold up under a legal challenge?  I have no idea... but I would prefer that I not be the one who has to go to court to find out! 

[cordwood]

Jeez, Martimus! Your experience is similar to one I had yesterday. On the 12th I see an ad on bp for a S&W 940, a wheelie I've always wanted! I call the contact # and propose a trade and am told that a potential buyer is on their way over to see the gun. Ok, call me if it doesn't materialize...nothin'. No call, no Email, zip. I assume the gun sold, naturally. Next day, bright and early, I see the same gun for sale at a substantially reduced price! I Email the guy immediately "forget the trade; I got king cash!" Now I'm am on the hook and want this gun bad. Tell him my cross-streets, arrange a workable time, Email a couple questions (I can taste this gun) and...nothin'. Again. Ad goes away...the end. In this instance, I think the seller simply found a trade he preferred or got a higher price and good for him! But come on, tell me! I don't need an explanation, just a simple "deals off. sorry." would do nicely. But it also makes you wonder about motivations when people behave in -well- a flakey manner.

[AZCarebear]

The Jewel Box. My dad and I use to go downtown every Saturday morning and go into the Jewel Box to look around and back then they were on 1st. Ave. between Washington and Jefferson on the east side of the street.