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Author Topic: Why should we trust medical professionals???  (Read 701 times)

Wyatt Earp

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Why should we trust medical professionals???
« on: June 17, 2020, 06:12:44 pm »
Read the attached article and then ask yourself, do I really trust these people?  After all, the same people begging Ducey to order masks were cheering the rioters just a few weeks ago....

https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/coronavirus/erosion-trust-10-things-public-health-establishment-got-wrong-about

Fast is fine, but accuracy is everything.

Wyatt Earp

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    GTGallop

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    Re: Why should we trust medical professionals???
    « Reply #1 on: June 17, 2020, 06:38:34 pm »
    I've got some I do implicitly.  I've got some I don't even give my middle name to.
    They are just like any other profession that spends 14 yeas in a Higher RE-Education camp and is forced to take extra hours in Diversity and Inclusion as well as Social Services.  A LOT of them are logic and critical thinking impaired deep in the koolaide libtards.  Some of them just lean liberal.  Others are bootstraps and brass tacks conservatives.  Smaller number in the last group but they exist.

    Now that you can't have magazines in the Doctors Office any more, there's no way to see if they have a Field and Stream in the stack.
    The only thing that separates man from animal is our affinity for toilet paper.
    Once we, as a society, lose that affinity, we begin to descend back into the animal kingdom, and after three or more days you will find the food chain beginning to invert on itself.

    https://www.qrz.com/db/n5mkh

    coelacanth

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    Re: Why should we trust medical professionals???
    « Reply #2 on: June 17, 2020, 09:19:38 pm »
    Over the last three months we've been given one load of crap after another by the so called "medical professionals", the government and the news media.  Now we find out that none other than the exalted Dr. Anthony Fauci lied to us about wearing masks a while back because he didn't trust the public to do the right thing.   :saywhat     So, I guess the answer to the question posed in the OP is no.  Not just no, but no and fluff off and die at the earliest opportunity.   :coffee
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    DClayton

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    Re: Why should we trust medical professionals???
    « Reply #3 on: June 17, 2020, 09:46:27 pm »
    Do I trust a medical professional to give me medical advice? Yes. Do I trust them to give me advice on anything else? No

    Clifffalling

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    Re: Why should we trust medical professionals???
    « Reply #4 on: June 18, 2020, 06:04:17 am »
    I think its called critical thinking.  Did/do i expect the "experts" to have the answers and the right ones out of the gate every time? No, hell no. That's stupid. Do i automatically assign ulterior motives when the miss something? No, hell no, thats stupid.
    Do i remember 7th grade biology  and do my own research too?  Yep, sure do. 
    Blaming some of these people is perfectly sound, when we know they did something malevolent.  Blaming them all and throwing them out with the bath water is just group think and about as useless as some of their opinions.
    Falling in line is falling in line. Doesnt matter which side of the argument you're on, its dangerous.
    To answer the question, i trust MY doctor. He's helped keep me alive the last 14 years...thats good enough for me. Anyone else? Trust takes time and has to be earned.
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    FreeInAZ

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    Re: Why should we trust medical professionals???
    « Reply #5 on: June 18, 2020, 06:43:41 am »
    NO! :mad
    Better to die on our feet than live on our knees! "The art of war teaches us to rely not on the likelihood of the enemy's not coming, but on our own readiness to receive him; not on the chance of his not attacking, but rather on the fact that we have made our position unassailable." -Sun Tzu

    GTGallop

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    Re: Why should we trust medical professionals???
    « Reply #6 on: June 18, 2020, 06:49:53 am »
    I think its called critical thinking.  Did/do i expect the "experts" to have the answers and the right ones out of the gate every time? No, hell no. That's stupid. Do i automatically assign ulterior motives when the miss something? No, hell no, thats stupid.
    Do i remember 7th grade biology  and do my own research too?  Yep, sure do. 
    Blaming some of these people is perfectly sound, when we know they did something malevolent.  Blaming them all and throwing them out with the bath water is just group think and about as useless as some of their opinions.
    Falling in line is falling in line. Doesnt matter which side of the argument you're on, its dangerous.
    To answer the question, i trust MY doctor. He's helped keep me alive the last 14 years...thats good enough for me. Anyone else? Trust takes time and has to be earned.

    Someone on this forum turned me on to Hanlon's Razor about 2 or 3 months ago.
    Quote
    "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."

    I think that fits here.  Maybe even alter stupidity to be ignorance, because ignorance can be both willful and unwillful.
    The only thing that separates man from animal is our affinity for toilet paper.
    Once we, as a society, lose that affinity, we begin to descend back into the animal kingdom, and after three or more days you will find the food chain beginning to invert on itself.

    https://www.qrz.com/db/n5mkh

    Clifffalling

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    Re: Why should we trust medical professionals???
    « Reply #7 on: June 18, 2020, 06:54:16 am »
    True story!  Agree. Looking at the whole escapade that has been this year, seems like folks are really getting caught up in taking sides and digging  in rather than getting facts.
    But... i guess that is sort of our nature . 
    Carry on, i suppose
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    GTGallop

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    Re: Why should we trust medical professionals???
    « Reply #8 on: June 18, 2020, 07:08:50 am »
    Cliff - That digging in and ignoring facts I would definitely call "Willful Ignorance."
    In the beginning we didn't know what we didn't know.  It is safe and reasonable for us to expect missteps and misjudgements early in the process.  Although I did think it was prudent in the early stages that we follow protocols for known viruses like Infuenza and Common Cold until we had more information an we even fell short of that.  But now that we have facts, I see a lot of people digging in to validate how they felt and believed in the early stages when we didn't have all of the facts and information.

    That to me is bizarre behavior and is supported by the "Participation Trophy" Phenomena, where everyone wins an no one learns how to lose gracefully and move on.  In the absence of data, people picked a position that made them feel good, safe, better, or what ever aligned with their ideals.  Then we got facts and information that supports certain directions and if people use those facts at all, they pick and choose which ones and cite only specific examples that support their position.  It is mind blowing.

    I always keep an open mind to the thought that "I might be wrong about this, but..."  And through the whole Corona, I've changed my position several times.  Some would call that wishy washy or flip flopping but my position refines and iterates based on the facts that I have been exposed to.  Hill top and course correct.
    The only thing that separates man from animal is our affinity for toilet paper.
    Once we, as a society, lose that affinity, we begin to descend back into the animal kingdom, and after three or more days you will find the food chain beginning to invert on itself.

    https://www.qrz.com/db/n5mkh

    Wyatt Earp

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    Re: Why should we trust medical professionals???
    « Reply #9 on: June 18, 2020, 07:44:47 am »
    I think its called critical thinking.  Did/do i expect the "experts" to have the answers and the right ones out of the gate every time? No, hell no. That's stupid. Do i automatically assign ulterior motives when the miss something? No, hell no, thats stupid.
    Do i remember 7th grade biology  and do my own research too?  Yep, sure do. 
    Blaming some of these people is perfectly sound, when we know they did something malevolent.  Blaming them all and throwing them out with the bath water is just group think and about as useless as some of their opinions.
    Falling in line is falling in line. Doesnt matter which side of the argument you're on, its dangerous.
    To answer the question, i trust MY doctor. He's helped keep me alive the last 14 years...thats good enough for me. Anyone else? Trust takes time and has to be earned.

    I don't expect them to have all of the right answers all of the time, but as an "expert" they are supposed to be right more than wrong.  I also don't expect them to provide advice based on their political bias instead of their professional knowledge, which they seem to be doing.  At this point, if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, it's a duck.  Since they look like political hacks, act like political hacks, they're political hacks.

    Another example

    https://www.lifenews.com/2020/06/17/black-man-silences-blacklivesmatter-protesters-by-asking-do-aborted-black-babies-matter/

    Fast is fine, but accuracy is everything.

    Wyatt Earp

    RJ

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    Re: Why should we trust medical professionals???
    « Reply #10 on: June 18, 2020, 08:22:11 am »
    every one of these hacks were looking forward to their "15 minutes of fame" i mean ca'mon if you can't hardly believe any thing on any news channel, what makes you think they'd allow anything more.
    its a scamdemic, a beta test for the sheep, and most fell for it, trusting anyone they put up in front of a camera is just plain scarey

    Half Cocked

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    Re: Why should we trust medical professionals???
    « Reply #11 on: June 18, 2020, 11:43:19 am »
    There is a limit to the knowledge of medical professionals and what they can do with current technology.  So far they haven't found a cure for conditions ranging from the common cold to ALS.  When faced with a new disease like Covid-19 they end up taking a SWAG (Scientific Wild Ass Guess) as to what actions are effective to combat it.  This is only a guess and the appropriate actions will be refined over time as they gain more knowledge of this new virus.

    I agree with Surgeon General Jerome Adams on the effectiveness (or lack thereof) of common face masks worn by people out in public.  In the absence of a truly effective medical treatment or vaccine for Covid-19, the medical professionals are pushing the use of face masks as a suitable measure to prevent the transmission of Covid-19 simply because they don't have a workable alternative (aside from simply staying away from sick people).  Advocating an ineffective measure like face masks is an indication of the impotence of the medical community in effectively treating Covid-19 at the present time.


    GTGallop

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    Re: Why should we trust medical professionals???
    « Reply #12 on: June 18, 2020, 11:56:55 am »
    the medical professionals are pushing the use of face masks as a suitable measure to prevent the transmission of Covid-19 simply because they don't have a workable alternative (aside from simply staying away from sick people).  Advocating an ineffective measure like face masks is an indication of the impotence of the medical community in effectively treating Covid-19 at the present time.

    And politicians are rallying behind it because it is security theater just like the TSA. It doesn't matter if you ARE safer, only if you FEEL safer and then use your FEELINGS to vote come November.
    The only thing that separates man from animal is our affinity for toilet paper.
    Once we, as a society, lose that affinity, we begin to descend back into the animal kingdom, and after three or more days you will find the food chain beginning to invert on itself.

    https://www.qrz.com/db/n5mkh

    anm2_man

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    Re: Why should we trust medical professionals???
    « Reply #13 on: June 18, 2020, 03:24:37 pm »
    ME to.   I have lost much respect for the circle of Doctors that I deal with on a yearly basis.  All of them are FREAKED out over COVID-19 that it is really scary.   I' considering in near term to replace them all.   These are DOC's that I've seen for years and today their attitude towards seeing their patients have totally changed (To a TOTAL LOCK DOWN n MASKS etc.). 

    Unfortunately, we can never go back to the way we as a population, have been before.  To many people are totally FREAKED out about this disease and I probably should be too since out of everybody here (on this forum) am the guy that if I get COVID-19, it will KILL me !  Why I'm 76 have had 2 bouts with LUNG CANCER over the last 18 years and my LUNGS work for shit.  But I look at it this way, IF you get COVID-19, there is nothing you can do to prevent it (Includes Mask etc.).  Every time I get comment about not wearing a MASK at any retail store, I always ask them "What they are going to do about their shoes ?".   Why if somebody 3 min ago that has COVID-19 has coughed on the floor they are walking on, and when they get home and take their shoes off, BANG its on your hands.   Most people look at their shoes and start to think.  Its really impossible to stop and any lock down or preventive measures  really don't  work.  It can be anywhere and if your in the wrong place at the wrong time, your going to get it.   :facepalm    Its really sad, what our Governments have done the populace concerning this disease.  It will take at least 1 generation from now to fix it.   SAD !
    "Peace is that brief, glorious moment in history when everybody stands around, and smart people are reloading."

    JarheadAZ

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    Re: Why should we trust medical professionals???
    « Reply #14 on: June 19, 2020, 09:22:50 am »
    I'm a Veteran, 100% Service Connected, Agent Orange Disabled (Heart and Lungs, past Lymphomas, etc.)

    My choices are locked; VA care or throwing my bread onto the waters, period.

    They're all good on some days, and luck keeps things interesting.

    I utterly trust the VA. They have saved my life four times since the early 1990's. Some of the Primary Caregivers are Dips**ts; but that kind doesn't last long. I wait them out; it's not like the alternatives are within reach. I've been in the VA System longer than most Doctors' careers last. The Specialists are top notch.

    I tried the VA Community Care option; well meaning; but both awkward, and -Lite. Some of them keep the Veterans at arms' reach. They get the money and like it, but sometimes it feels like paid pro-bono. The good ones are still upwardly mobile and disappear as career opportunities claim them.

    I live long and prosper. Next question...

    Greg
    « Last Edit: June 19, 2020, 09:25:27 am by JarheadAZ »
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    sfed

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    Re: Why should we trust medical professionals???
    « Reply #15 on: June 19, 2020, 03:35:43 pm »
    Medical errors are the third leading cause of death in the US!!  You must be responsable for your own health decisions. Do research.

    5632

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    Re: Why should we trust medical professionals???
    « Reply #16 on: June 19, 2020, 03:49:16 pm »
    Medically, I only trust Doctors.

    But remember that Doctors are the only ones that berry there mistakes.

    Clifffalling

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    Re: Why should we trust medical professionals???
    « Reply #17 on: June 19, 2020, 06:41:22 pm »
    Medical errors are the third leading cause of death in the US!!  You must be responsable for your own health decisions. Do research.
    Truth
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    Josh_45

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    Re: Why should we trust medical professionals???
    « Reply #18 on: June 23, 2020, 11:28:53 pm »
    I don't trust any of these dopes at all. Not impressed just cause your name may have ME at the end of it. I've met more bad doctors than good. Just saying...
    There is nothing more deceptive then an obvious fact. - Sherlock Holmes

    JarheadAZ

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    Re: Why should we trust medical professionals???
    « Reply #19 on: June 25, 2020, 07:48:47 am »
    Been in a lot of rooms with doctors and other practitioners.

    The one thing I can always trust in is the simple fact that only one of us is the professional, and I ain't it.

    That's kept me alive pretty well enough so far...

    Greg
    Not lookin' to be in a gunfight, but if you find yourself mixed up in one, it might be kinda nice to have a gun...

    "Faint heart never filled a flush" - Brett Maverick

    Good marksmanship is no accident - JarheadNY

    FreeInAZ

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    Re: Why should we trust medical professionals???
    « Reply #20 on: June 25, 2020, 08:20:14 am »
    Doctors are humans first, with all the flaws that come with that. Trust is earned, not given freely to those that you meet because they wear a certain get up on select days... To put it another way...do you think those forms they pass out that ask all sorts of things including gun ownership are shredded after you leave the office? Doubtful, more likely they get entered into your DIGITAL medical file, that is in a DATABASE, that can be like all data can be weaponized and or abused....

    A wise man had some things of value to impart about "trust"



    Better to die on our feet than live on our knees! "The art of war teaches us to rely not on the likelihood of the enemy's not coming, but on our own readiness to receive him; not on the chance of his not attacking, but rather on the fact that we have made our position unassailable." -Sun Tzu

    RetroG

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    Re: Why should we trust medical professionals???
    « Reply #21 on: June 30, 2020, 02:38:26 pm »
    I trust medical people up to a point.  My absolute trust in them evaporated back when my niece had a major health issue and was told she wouldn't walk again (she went on to play tennis on her high school team) have children (her daughter graduated high school) or even graduate high school herself (she did graduate, and walked across the stage to accept her diploma).  The doctors had several different causes of her condition, but I don't think they still have settled on a diagnosis.

    I'm not a medical professional, or even a biology major, but I have dealt with large data sources and computer models.  The mere fact there isn't error bars on the number of cases (there HAS to be, because no test is 100% reliable) or confidence figures on the projections from the models (again, at a minimum, the error bars from the data propagated through the calculations define your confidence figures, plus rounding errors from the programs and hardware) tells me I can't trust the models, as the modelers either don't want to release those numbers or don't know what they are doing.

    Since the advice we are getting keeps changing on a daily basis, I tend not to trust those either.  From my professional life, I know that those face masks can't possibly work as we are told.  To filter out viruses, you'd be hard pressed to even breathe without a powered filter system.  An N95 mask needs to be professionally fit to the user, and still allows 1 out of every 20 particles to pass through. If they kept you from getting infected, then Covid-19 isn't as communicable as we have been led to believe.  They said the virus survives on surfaces up to 3 days, but didn't tell us the percentage of the virus that survives or what viral load is needed to infect a person.  What is the basis for the 6 foot separation rule?  I can't find any source, papers, experiments, etc. for why it is 6 foot and not 10 or 12 or 3.  Everything seems to be a symptom of Covid, except sneezing, which the CDC took off the list. 

    Lastly, I don't personally know anyone who has tested positive or came down with Covid.  I know a handful of friends of friends or internet friends who have tested positive or came down with it, but not in the numbers we are getting from official sources.

    coelacanth

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    Re: Why should we trust medical professionals???
    « Reply #22 on: June 30, 2020, 02:53:11 pm »
    Again, very intelligent questions and observations.  :thumbup   

    You don't have the right mindset or information to be a news source anywhere but around here.   I agree that the science of computer modeling is poorly understood by the news consuming public.  A wild guess is still a wild guess even when made by some serious looking and serious sounding nitwit with credentials.  The fact that absolutely nobody in a decision making position is willing to utter the words " I don't know." is all the proof you need that these people are not to be trusted without independent verification.   :coffee
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    GTGallop

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    Re: Why should we trust medical professionals???
    « Reply #23 on: June 30, 2020, 09:11:37 pm »
    They say 80% of the US population will have had COVID-19 by the time it's all over.  That's ‭263,902,017 people before it is all said and done.  And they want to get upset about hitting 100,000?  I got news for you - you don't get to 263M People without passing 100,000 more than once.  We are sitting at 2,581,229 total cases today.  That means we either need to test a S-Load of people or we are only 9.78% done with this.

    So yes - I don't trust the medical professionals at the helm of this whole circus, but I trust their clowns, the statisticians, even less.
    The only thing that separates man from animal is our affinity for toilet paper.
    Once we, as a society, lose that affinity, we begin to descend back into the animal kingdom, and after three or more days you will find the food chain beginning to invert on itself.

    https://www.qrz.com/db/n5mkh

    coelacanth

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    Re: Why should we trust medical professionals???
    « Reply #24 on: July 01, 2020, 09:36:52 pm »
    Or. as the old saying goes; "There are lies, damned lies and then there are statistics." .  And by extrapolation, computer models - by means of which we can now f*** up on a previously unimaginable scale. 
    " A republic, if you can keep it. "
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