How many of you have had low light defensive pistol training?

[azqkr]

The FBI Uniform Crime Reports are compiled annually, and year after year they show police officers are attacked and killed during low-light hours between 60 and 70 percent of the time. Other life-threatening criminal activities, like home invasions and muggings, follow the same pattern.

Do you have any low light shooting experience?

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[Wyatt Earp]

I do and our department issues weapon lights.

[azqkr]

Excellent.

[coyotesfan97]

Yes with handguns and long guns.

[lesptr]

Not since I separated from USArmy


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[Chuck]

Yep. May I again ask why all the questions of us?

[azqkr]

We tested firing in the dark on a near moonless night far away from city lights in the Supes on several occasions. The M1a everyone thought would destroy their n/v didn't [ there were 4 of us doing the testing for a company making a new flash supressor that was supposed to reduce muzzle flash significantly and really didn't over the standard M1a flash suppressor ], in fact both had a very small flash signature. The g17, 1911, and even the 357 model 13 S+W weren't a problem either.

With todays low flash powders, it's really not much of an issue. The real killer of n/v was rifle calibers in pistol length barrels which demonstrated a lot of powder left unburnt exiting the muzzles of the likes of the 308 HK51 with 10.5" barrel and the 223/556 in ar pistols.

Shot a low light/near dark match once a month under black lights indoors for 3 years back in the day [ no night sights allowed in the match and one couldn't see either sight in those lighting conditions. The muzzle flashes weren't really a problem even back in the late 80s. Snubs, once again, with the shorter barrels can be problematic but not nearly as much as most would think with the low flash powders used today.

[FreeInAZ]

Ok to clarify - I am talking about actually shooting in a HD setting. That's what we're really talking about right? Not shooting outside or in a range designed to reduce noise / acoustics echoes, or being out on a long range recon patrol trying to find Victor Charlie in the jungle.  Meaning- white or light color walls that not only reflect muzzle flash, but also sound in typical rooms found in a average home.

If you've actually done this, and your vision and hearing weren't affected,  you are a medical marvel IMHO.

And the hocus pocus is strong with you:

[azqkr]

We're talking all low light situations, not just the home [ as in the first sentence of the OP, leo's being involved in more low light shootings than daytime ]. And hearing isn't the topic of this thread, low light shooting defensive training is. 

And in fact, I do have some background in low light in a dwelling shooting, during HK swat in 93 going in live fire as well as surefires for searching the basements in the dark on the weapons.

On the streets with ambient light available, it would less of a problem than in the middle of the supes with no moon light and near total darkness. That's why we tested in that condition, if it wasn't a problem there, it's not going to be a problem with ambient light in an urban environment.

But to your point indoors and hearing, I had someone fire a 45acp from a gov model in a closed vehicle and there wasn't much to it other than the startle affect it had. In the home, it's not as much of a problem as many presume it to be. A problem yes, but not something that's very debilitating enough to affect performance. But the hearing is getting off topic of this thread, so I'd ask you stay ON TOPIC.

[FreeInAZ]

I have had night vision goggles surgically implanted! And during the day I just wear a welders mask! /quote]

You jest, but I keep a head lamp handy because the weapon light on the FRONT of the gun does nothing to illuminate the sights or help you clear a malf.

Just something to ponder. Can you quickly turn that headlamp off and on? Why you ask? If I'm a bad guy (and some would say I am) the instant I see a light I'm ripping off 3 quick shots while moving one directly towards the light, one to the left [light wearers right] and one to the right...

I strongly suggest in a HD situation that you only use a light and or laser immediately prior to taking a "defensive shot(s)", then immediately off. I make that distinction as a lot of the high speed-low drag, tacti-cool classes being taught today are based in "offensive tactics and theory".

 That's great if you're Delta, Seals, Rangers, Swat, Antifa etc...etc... but as a mere mortal humans (aka civilians) trying to keep your arse in tact and those of your loved ones, going on the offensive is a last option left decision IMHO.

Take it for what it cost you here on the internet.   Do your own "object analysis " of what you need to learn and will it actually work in the environment you spend most of your time in (your home)?

[azqkr]

Use of a light is part and parcel to low light defensive pistol training in many circles as another member mentioned his dept issues lights for low light situations.

I prefer the handhelds that have two modes, 15 watt and 300 watt. Prefer the end cap on off over just twist on/off in a light like this one

https://www.armsunlimited.com/SureFire-Pro-Dual-Output-Tactical-LED-Flashlight-p/g2x-d.htm

I have these placed around the house, back and front doors, nightstand, pocket in the doors of both vehicles, on my belt, and SAR packs. Prefer the "floating light" concept when using them to hunt and not on the gun, but in a low light defensive scenario on the street, I won't likely have time to access the one on my belt

[FreeInAZ]

My headlamp and weapon light are both one click on and one click off.  If I hold the headlamp button I can turn it from a bright white to red.

Honestly, I don't worry too much about tell's in the dark.  I'll probably give them a verbal command to leave well before they see me.
1. It helps reduce friendly casualties
2. The odds of me going from over 40, over weight, bald, sleepy, and stiff & achy to a Treadstone graduate in 3 seconds are pretty slim.  I need to play the hand I'm dealt - a fat mans hand, not a Jason Bourne hand.
3. Besides, why did I spend all that time watching Tombstone and Unforgiven if I wasn't going to trade cool one liners?

And I'll back your play on the night vision and hearing.
I've fired a .40 in the dark of night and I saw purple spots every where and I fired the same gun one time with out hearing protection and couldn't hear shi....... (new owners OK with the poopy word?) .......it for about 5 minutes.  The ringing lasted a lot longer.  And that was outdoors in a clearing.  I can only imagine in a house.


Edit:  Matter of fact - I just noticed......  Said headlamp is on my head in the avatar if you can see it.

It sure is GT! Hey I totally get what you're saying. And I appreciate your candor. The real world works a little different than what happens in a class setting.  Not bashing classes, just saying that what you learn should be applicable in your area of opperations - aka your home primarily, for us mere citizens...

Or to quote Mike Tyson: ..."everyone's got a plan, until they get punched in the mouth." Now extrapolated, I take that to mean your plan is good if you're  never within the reach of said punch.

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