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Author Topic: Opinions on M1 Garand Load Plan  (Read 1316 times)

NBC LT

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Opinions on M1 Garand Load Plan
« on: August 25, 2018, 05:51:33 pm »
I ran into a bunch of IMR 4064 and Winchester 748 powders as well as CBC .308 148.5gn M80 projectiles with cannelure.  I was thinking about the following loads to chronograph once it cools down another 10 degrees:

Winchester 748 & IMR 4064  COL 3.255 (This length leaves a very small cannelure band visible)
48 grains powder
49 grains powder
50 grains powder

The load data I find for similar projectiles seems to suggest the 47-51 grain range as acceptable.  Of course the brass is all full case length resized, trimmed and chamfered/de-burred.  Anyone have experience or chrono-results to share with these loads and operational capability in an old CMP M1 garand???

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    coelacanth

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    Re: Opinions on M1 Garand Load Plan
    « Reply #1 on: August 25, 2018, 08:31:53 pm »
    One of our members runs one and reloads for it pretty regularly so I imagine he'll weigh in shortly. 
    " A republic, if you can keep it. "
                                                  Benjamin Franklin

    anm2_man

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    Re: Opinions on M1 Garand Load Plan
    « Reply #2 on: August 26, 2018, 06:00:20 am »
    I can't give you any numbers for the powders that you have on hand, but I worry a bit using W748.  Its a little bit faster than the IMR 4064 which is really close to H4895 (Powder used in most milsurp 30-06).  I have always used 4895 for my old Garand and my belt-fed.  Your COAL should work.  You could probably go out to 3.322 (Is what I used to go for).  Beyond that the M80 are a little longer than the original spitzer 150gr that were used, but should work ok. 

    The only other suggestion would be stay below .50grn.   That would be pushing pretty hard and with the longer projectle, you don't want a compressed load. 

    JMHO
    "Peace is that brief, glorious moment in history when everybody stands around, and smart people are reloading."

    JarheadAZ

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    Re: Opinions on M1 Garand Load Plan
    « Reply #3 on: August 26, 2018, 08:05:48 am »
    My 150gr FMJBT M2 equivalent load is 50.0gr of IMR-4064, and this should be considered max for the Garand. I have no experience with W748, and will defer to the others on its usage.

    I set my OAL according/equivalent to the length of commercial M2 equivalent loads, like Federal American Eagle 150gr, which (along with Prvi-Partizan 150gr Garand load) is also a good load for the Garand. Federal Gold Medal 168gr Match is also another good Garand load. The Hornady Manual's Garand section lists 3.185" as the OAL for its 150gr FMJBT with Cannelure.

    https://www.ammogarand.com/3006-48rd-bandoleers-m2-fmj-in-30-m1-8r30064823018198039.html

    https://www.midwayusa.com/product/953112253/federal-american-eagle-ammunition-30-06-springfield-m1-garand-150-grain-full-metal-jacket

    https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1165163765/hornady-bullets-30-caliber-308-diameter-150-grain-full-metal-jacket-boat-tail-with-cannelure

    https://www.midwayusa.com/product/455672/federal-premium-gold-medal-ammunition-30-06-springfield-168-grain-sierra-matchking-hollow-point-boat-tail-box-of-20

    Most hunting loads run higher pressures and are not a good match for the Garand, which has that long and delicate operating rod. Powders slower than IMR-4o64 or faster than IMR-4895 will place that oprod in jeopardy, and right now a replacement (if you can actually find one) runs in the $350-$400 range. Bullets heavier than 175-180gr are also excessive for the Garand. Reduced recoil loads may not cycle the action correctly. Excessive pressure starts its damage by causing a dismount, where the Oprod disengages from its track. Stop using the load immediately, and often you can save your Oprod from irreversible damage.

    I use commercial brass, and like Hornady.

    Primers are a matter of conjecture.

    Because the Garand employs a floating firing pin, improper loading procedure can initiate a slam fire, where the cartridge ignites before the bolt reaches the full battery position (i.e fully closes). As long as every cartridge get stripped out of the magazine, the action design applies enough braking force on the bolt, and it never reaches a fast enough velocity to initiate a slam fire. Doing it wrong, like manually chambering a cartridge and releasing the bolt to fly free into battery, allows the bolt to move a lot faster, putting the potential for a slam fire into the high likelihood. All this has a bearing on primer selection.

    Unless you can absolutely certify that the latter approach will never occur with your ammunition, it becomes wisest to use the Mil-Spec primers, CCI#34, which has a construction that resists slam fires. Some say they are less accurate, but my experience is that most shooters can't shoot well enough to find that bit if difference. I will not discuss other primer choices because of the safety aspects surrounding such choices.

    https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1301152162/cci-762mm-nato-spec-military-primers-34

    So how may one single load without risking a slam fire? Simple, get a SLED (Single Loading Enhancement Device).

    https://www.midwayusa.com/product/998298/aggressive-engineering-single-loading-enhancement-device-m1-garand

    Greg

    Note attached the link to a topic I started here on the 168gr match equivalent load I use for my Garand. https://arizonagunowners.com/index.php/topic,15472.0.html
    « Last Edit: August 26, 2018, 08:30:50 am by JarheadAZ »
    Not lookin' to be in a gunfight, but if you find yourself mixed up in one, it might be kinda nice to have a gun...

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    NBC LT

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    Re: Opinions on M1 Garand Load Plan
    « Reply #4 on: August 26, 2018, 01:27:17 pm »
    Thanks everyone!

    I'm still shooting up alot of my father's 2005 vintage reloads in his old Garand.  He loaded pulled M80 projectiles with either 46-48 grains of 2460 or 2520.  That load worked for him and I engage silhouette steel targets dependably with that load at 200 meters (I plan to put on paper in September).  I appreciate the experience of the reloaders on this forum, as it would break my heart to over-charge my late fathers M1.  I think I'll back off and try 16 rounds of each powder between 46, 47 & 48 grains - and watch the chrono results and grouping.

    I am using Wolf Large Rifle Primers - got a bunch of these to burn.  They have been dependable (I have used 2k of a 5k LRP lot and all 5k of an SPP lot without FTF) and have a reputation for being tougher primers.

    I'll let everyone know my chrono results and grouping in future posts.  Cannot wait for the weather to break in October.
    « Last Edit: August 26, 2018, 01:32:02 pm by NBC LT »

    rubinschmidt

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    Re: Opinions on M1 Garand Load Plan
    « Reply #5 on: August 26, 2018, 02:51:50 pm »
    I've used 4064 with 147 to 152 grain FMJs without incident. I stay at least a couple of grains lower than max. 4895 is what you really want to use to feel good all the time.

    W748 is really better in smaller cases than 30-06. I would save it for use there. I just feel better using extruded powders in my Garand, although I have no science to back that up.

    steve2md

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    Re: Opinions on M1 Garand Load Plan
    « Reply #6 on: August 27, 2018, 07:12:17 pm »
    My personal rule for load development is to bump up 1/2 grain at a time with powder rather than a full grain. Makes detecting problems early easier, and also I often hit the "sweet spot" for a particular rifle at one of the .5 gn spots.
    Heat it till it's hot, then beat it with a hammer until it's the shape you want.    Blacksmith's advice that works for pretty much everything in life

    JarheadAZ

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    Re: Opinions on M1 Garand Load Plan
    « Reply #7 on: August 28, 2018, 08:59:37 am »
    I try a single arbitrary 'popular' load for accuracy, then do another round of tests of that load against charges 1% heavier and lighter than the initial load. Usually, the results will point me in the right direction for further testing. For the Garand 30-06 case, that works out to about 1/2 grain increments.

    I do it this way because much., maybe most, of my shooting is load development; and back when I was starting with a wider range of loads, I found I was breaking down a lot of unproductive test loads.

    The newer way means fewer shots, and fewer breakdown loads. It also takes more range session, but they are more rewarding sessions too.

    I find that I'm using IMR-4064 for my 30-06 and 308 loads, and some of my lighter weight 260 loads. Not the most temperature insensitive powder, it's still a strong contender for the larger 30 cal military cases.

    H-4350 is about everybody's favorite powder for the 260 and 6.5CM, which can make it hard to find a lot of the time. I'm working my way away from it with IMR-4064 for the lighter bullets, and H-4831 for the heaviest ones. I would not recommend H-4350 or H-4831 for the Garand, they are too slow.

    Greg
    « Last Edit: August 28, 2018, 09:07:00 am by JarheadAZ »
    Not lookin' to be in a gunfight, but if you find yourself mixed up in one, it might be kinda nice to have a gun...

    "Faint heart never filled a flush" - Brett Maverick

    Good marksmanship is no accident - JarheadNY

    NBC LT

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    Re: Opinions on M1 Garand Load Plan
    « Reply #8 on: September 01, 2018, 11:47:01 am »
    Ended up trying the following loads:
    W748 @ 46, 46.5, 47, 47.5 & 48 grains
    IMR4064 @ 47, 47.5, 48,48.5 & 49 grains
    All using:
    Wolf LRP
    CBC M80 projectile (FMJ 148.5 gn)
    Trimmed with RCBS trim die on extended shellholder
    Case Prep with RCBS Case Prep center
    RCBS Jr2 dated 1968
    RCBS priming press/system
    RCBS full length die set
    Lee Crimp die
    RCBS automated powder scale
    Dillon Case Gauge

    I load .308 on my XL650, but still use the old Jr2 for 30-06, .303, 7.62*39, .357 magnum, .38 special & 8*57 Mauser.  Hope to get to the range once it cools down so I can post chronograph and grouping results.  Thanks for your sharing your experience and opinions everyone!

    Dragonflydf

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    Re: Opinions on M1 Garand Load Plan
    « Reply #9 on: September 22, 2018, 01:55:46 pm »
    I have used 4064 and 150gr FMJBT as my Garand load for years with no problems.

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