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Author Topic: Sell reloads ?  (Read 3660 times)

Curmudgeon

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Sell reloads ?
« on: January 21, 2020, 09:14:30 am »
Tricky subject.  I know there are laws involved, if a person was to do it on a large scale.  But I'm thinking just small transactions between friends, so to speak.    Here's my question:
I've been cranking out a shit-ton of ammo recently.  Helps pass the time for me between chemo treatment, doctor visits, and binge TV watching.
I have more ammo than I could ever use in a NORMAL lifetime, no less my limited one. 
I'm thinking to leave my wife with the task of getting rid of it.  I'm sure it would amount to a nice piece of change.  Question is, how?  I know there is a stigma about buying other people's reloads, Im aware of it, and I understand it.  I have been reloading for over 15 years.  We have been shooting an average of 500 - 600 rounds every week, and the only thing we shoot, are my reloads.  Absolutely no issues.  No safety issues anyway.  You're always gonna have an occasional misfire due to a bad primer, and once in a while, an upside down, or missing primer, but that's it.
Other issue is price.  How much to ask?  Let's take 9mm for example.  I have over 60 thousand here.  I have no idea what it cost per round to load them, but I see some pretty good deals on 9mm ammo, especially if you buy quantity.  What would I have to sell my 9mm for, to make them competitive?  Nines are by far my largest supply, but I have more than enough .40 S&W; .45 ACP; and .38 SPL, to be able to sell a bunch of them also.  Maybe even some .357 Mag.
I hate to think of all that ammo just sitting here, and tarnishing over the years.

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    coelacanth

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    Re: Sell reloads ?
    « Reply #1 on: January 21, 2020, 01:52:57 pm »
    Seems to me the potential problems you have outlined could be addressed before you go ( we hope you live long enough and feel well enough to actually use most of it  :thumbup ) by arranging some of the details before your wife has to.  If anybody is curious about the quality of the ammunition just show them your guns and some fired cases and a sample of the ammo in question.   

    A knowledgeable shooter/reloader will understand what they are looking at.  If any questions remain just give them a box and tell them to go shoot it.  If they then wish to arrange a trade or purchase the details can be worked out at that time.  Obviously this needs to be done with people you are comfortable dealing with - probably long time forum members here and/or people you've dealt with before but it seems to solve some of the problems you've outlined. 

    Maybe a group buy for forum members who are interested in a particular caliber might be arranged to keep you from having to try and move the stuff a box or two at a time.  Pricing will have to depend on what you are comfortable with and what the market will bear but I'm sure something acceptable could be worked out.   

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    Unpleasant

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    Re: Sell reloads ?
    « Reply #2 on: January 21, 2020, 03:04:55 pm »
    I think it's not a great idea to resell them. Licensed manufacturers have huge insurance policies to cover things like that.

    Think about if someone blows up their gun, not even using your ammo, and comes after you for having sold them reloads. How do you prove it's not your reloads?

    What if they blow up their gun with someone else's ammo and hurts their hand, then come after you? Same as above without tracking the Lot numbers.

    Maybe you should switch over to just processing the brass and reselling that.

    Curmudgeon

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    Re: Sell reloads ?
    « Reply #3 on: January 21, 2020, 03:29:38 pm »
    i've gone shooting with folks, and had them help themselves to my ammo.  I've also given some ammo to several friends.  One was visiting yesterday, and was very interested in the idea.  Price is what we need to figure out.  I gave him 100 rounds so that he could give some samples to 2 or 3 friends and relatives to try.  He seems pretty confident that we'll be able to sell some rounds to them.
    Looks like, if anything, it's just going to be a few dribs and drabs like that.  So for instance, take my biggest inventory, which are the 9mm, and sell 2 or 3 thousand rounds, it still leaves me with enough ammo here, to fight a war.
    No bueno

    car-ram-rod

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    Re: Sell reloads ?
    « Reply #4 on: January 21, 2020, 06:03:04 pm »
    I’ll buy your small primers
    NRA Pistol, Rifle and Shotgun Instructor
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    JK357

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    Re: Sell reloads ?
    « Reply #5 on: January 21, 2020, 09:12:56 pm »
    What do you have in 38 and 357? And of course how much? :hmm

    Clifffalling

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    Re: Sell reloads ?
    « Reply #6 on: January 22, 2020, 06:04:11 am »
    So, for 9mm... 3c for primer, 2c powder, 7c bullet, 0c for case? 12c total. I am assuming we are talking 115gr fmj. Maybe selling for for cost. $120 per 1000 is pretty appealing. I would think.
    However,  couple things to consider, which I am sure you have. 1: I think intent has a lot to do with the law here. But with thousands upon thousands of rounds it is bound to attract unwanted attention.  I keep thinking of the guy that sold ammo to the Vegas shooter.
    2: I absolutely guarantee there are folks , either private and/or LE that look at boards like this for illicit activity on the regular.
    I have thrown in handloads on firearm sales sort of like accessories or components to sweeten the deal. I have given some to friends, but have to resist the urge to sell. In today's world, i feel like there is always a trail back to you. And this one just isn't worth it, it seems.
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    RJ

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    Re: Sell reloads ?
    « Reply #7 on: January 22, 2020, 06:42:54 am »
    having seen his operation, and the anal attitude he takes towards what he does, i'd say the reloads would be reliable as your own, i do not have any first hand knowledge, but when he does offer for sale, i will take some and run them thru a sub gun and a few pistols, generally shoot 700 to 1k on an outing, and i reload a lot, buy bullets with a group by pallet, powder by KEGS, so again, the set up and discussion is all part of getting the feeling of a good job well done.

    there is and always will be a stink on reloads and or shooting other folks reloads, way too many second hand stories of telling it outside the reality of the real story, oh i've see some ugly stuff on reloads over the years, but mostly fellas that are working up loads and wildcatting, and see a few injuries, fortunately no major injuries, but i'm still shooting so who knows.
    on my own  reloads i've had a upside down primer, no primer and not seated deep enough, just goes to show you, even a big volume reloader should check they're equipment more often, only takes once, so now i check every 30 to 40 rounds, as i hate pulling bullets.
    best of luck with sales, a little at a time, and no issues will come up as far as i've seen over the years, as it was not reloaded to resale, the events of living have changed the use of it.
    just saying
    Rj

    Curmudgeon

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    Re: Sell reloads ?
    « Reply #8 on: January 22, 2020, 07:12:58 am »
    I’ll buy your small primers

    It's the large ones I have too many of.  Listed them here a while ago, but no bites.

    I'll let you know when I want to sell some small ones. 

    Curmudgeon

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    Re: Sell reloads ?
    « Reply #9 on: January 22, 2020, 07:15:56 am »
    What do you have in 38 and 357? And of course how much? :hmm

    See?  This is how unorganized I am.  I have NO CLUE how much

    Got doctor today.  Give me a bit, and I'll figure out a price and get back to you

    spafxer

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    Re: Sell reloads ?
    « Reply #10 on: January 23, 2020, 07:42:34 am »
    In this situation how about your buyer signs a statement that these rounds are sold for "component use only"

    I always thought that seemed acceptable legally, morally, and financially.

    Best to you Curmudgeon

    Curmudgeon

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    Re: Sell reloads ?
    « Reply #11 on: January 23, 2020, 07:48:00 am »
    In this situation how about your buyer signs a statement that these rounds are sold for "component use only"

    I always thought that seemed acceptable legally, morally, and financially.

    Best to you Curmudgeon

    Interesting idea.   I've never been to keen of relying on "signed statements" for anything though.

    Ever sell a gun where the buyer insists on trading signed statements?  I'll bet you never kept any of them.  I know I never did.

    AZ Husker

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    Re: Sell reloads ?
    « Reply #12 on: January 23, 2020, 10:01:40 am »
    I've shot a couple hundred of Curmudgeon's reloads, 9mm and .45acp. Great ammo. He has the most organized shop/reloading room I've ever seen.

    pscipio03

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    Re: Sell reloads ?
    « Reply #13 on: January 23, 2020, 12:34:07 pm »
    After what happened in the Las Vegas shooting, I wouldn't go near selling your handloads, or even handloads you purchased.
    Add to that if you plan to sell ammo YOU make, you'll need your FFL anyway. As far as I know, you don't need a FFL if you're reselling from someone else.

    AZ Husker

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    Re: Sell reloads ?
    « Reply #14 on: January 23, 2020, 12:47:18 pm »
    Maybe I'll start a 501C and you can donate it all to me, then write it off on your taxes.  :thumbup

    Curmudgeon

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    Re: Sell reloads ?
    « Reply #15 on: January 24, 2020, 06:58:36 am »
    I gave out some more samples.  Got one guy who said he's in for a few thousand rounds.  I guess it's a starting point

    armoredman

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    Re: Sell reloads ?
    « Reply #16 on: January 31, 2020, 04:24:24 am »
    You need an FFL to sell ammo. Trade some to your buddy for something he has, give it away, and get invited to back yard parties in return, do not try to make a profit, or ATFE might be looking to make your life uncomfortable.

    Curmudgeon

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    Re: Sell reloads ?
    « Reply #17 on: January 31, 2020, 05:27:47 am »
    You need an FFL to sell ammo. Trade some to your buddy for something he has, give it away, and get invited to back yard parties in return, do not try to make a profit, or ATFE might be looking to make your life uncomfortable.

    Profit couldn't be a motive.  I reload for my own peace of mind.  If you put a price on the time involved, between retrieving, the brass, sorting it, polishing it, and then the actual reloading process itself, you're losing your shirt

    RJ

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    Re: Sell reloads ?
    « Reply #18 on: January 31, 2020, 05:38:12 am »
    worrying about the government tit would be least of my worries, not like you're selling as a biz, big difference imo, but who knows how the govent idgits will look at it.

    but with most things again imo, sell what you got when you can and move on, biggest issue is folks wanting to buy reloads, best of luck
    Rj

    thom

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    Re: Sell reloads ?
    « Reply #19 on: January 31, 2020, 09:23:20 am »
    I have shot some of his reloads.  They shoot great. They make the gong sound at 40 yards with a 9mm.   I am going to borrow more to shoot.

    Thom
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    GrabYourGat

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    Re: Sell reloads ?
    « Reply #20 on: February 09, 2020, 02:57:33 pm »
    You need an FFL to sell ammo. Trade some to your buddy for something he has, give it away, and get invited to back yard parties in return, do not try to make a profit, or ATFE might be looking to make your life uncomfortable.


    Since when have you needed an FFL to sell ammo? UNAMMO here in Phoenix only sells ammo and they don't have an FFL.

    Clifffalling

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    Re: Sell reloads ?
    « Reply #21 on: February 09, 2020, 09:10:40 pm »
    My understanding is that you need the FFL if you are selling AND the manufacturer of the ammunition. But... there are some caveats and workarounds. Employing them can potentially be dicey though.
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    pscipio03

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    Re: Sell reloads ?
    « Reply #22 on: March 02, 2020, 03:05:19 pm »

    Since when have you needed an FFL to sell ammo? UNAMMO here in Phoenix only sells ammo and they don't have an FFL.
    If you handload the ammo then sell it- you need a FFL.
    If you're just a flow through for ammo sales, you don't need a FFL.
    Where you are going to into issues reselling ammo is the need to collect taxes. Few people are set up to do that, or will spend the time necessary to set up and do that, if they are selling only a few thousand here or there.

    I can think of a dozen different reasons BEFORE you get to the BATFE on why selling the handloads you make is a bad idea. Number 1 would be getting your ass sued off if you have a kaboom and someone is maimed or killed. Number 2 is getting drug into court if for some reason someone uses your ammo to commit a crime. Ballistic testing on handloads is a crapshoot and you can bet you'll find yourself answering questions on your ammo if it's used for a no-no. Not that you'll get in trouble, but you will lose time being in court or getting questioned. Number 3 is making handloads that are legal for you to shoot, but illegal to sell to someone else- like 'armor piercing' handloads. Things get murky when you start selling pulled military ordnance and sell it as a full round.
    Just read up on the shooter in Vegas and who he bought his ammo from. He was out of Mesa and is now facing a quarter million dollars in fines and a couple years in the pen.

    anm2_man

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    Re: Sell reloads ?
    « Reply #23 on: March 02, 2020, 04:03:23 pm »

    Since when have you needed an FFL to sell ammo? UNAMMO here in Phoenix only sells ammo and they don't have an FFL.

    You got to be kidding me ??   UNAMMO is a nation wide distributor of Ammunition.   Howie (Owner of UNAMMO)  needs a license to to do that.  Unless you have some other proof that he has no License, please present it !  If not keep your mouth shut.  Commercial selling ammo requires you to have a FFL.   
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    delta6

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    Re: Sell reloads ?
    « Reply #24 on: March 02, 2020, 05:08:07 pm »
    You got to be kidding me ??   UNAMMO is a nation wide distributor of Ammunition.   Howie (Owner of UNAMMO)  needs a license to to do that.  Unless you have some other proof that he has no License, please present it !  If not keep your mouth shut.  Commercial selling ammo requires you to have a FFL.

    Wow... this thread ran off the rails!
    Here's what I don't know.. If Howie (Owner of UNAMMO) has a license?

    Here's what I do know.. You "do not" need a license (federally, state laws may differ, ie: CA, NJ, NY, etc.) to sell ammunition, unless you reloaded it or you imported it. The tax issue mentioned, is not a concern of the BATFE. That is an IRS issue.

    If anyone disagrees, please cite the BATFE Regulation.

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