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Author Topic: What will the courts say about self defense rulings?  (Read 486 times)

Starguco

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What will the courts say about self defense rulings?
« on: October 12, 2020, 12:47:58 am »
So what will the ruling of the multiple self defense cases that are in the news right now have a affect on the Future?
Will the state courts ruling in these issue be a possible factor for the supreme court to use in future decision making cases?
Will the new appointee of the supreme court have a voice in this area? I ask because I have noticed a lot of post directly or indirectly on this subject.
Still waiting on the courts rulings on these cases.

This is a long read yet please bear with me on this. I read a fair amount. I also subscribe to USCCA. One one the statements from my self defense instructor was "The more you read of court cases on self defense and or verdicts can help you with justification of self defense if you ever need to defend yourself in court." He was a law enforcement officer at the time of my training. "They can be court admissible for your defense."

The following topics have many views or suggestions regarding in one way shape or form that I perceive as possible answers.

I asked about a the issue of self defense https://arizonagunowners.com/index.php/topic,18868.msg209458.html#msg209458
Science fiction 2193 Sonic boom gun prediction 1993. The "Sonic boom" would be my future self defense gun of choice.

Quote from: Starguco on October 09, 2019, 10:12:47 am
What made " Human's" not able to protect themselves from great bodily harm or death acceptable?
The Liberal Left.

If that doesn't tell you all you ever need to know about the left(?) then you are delusional people...


I then asked about the  Disabled Woman Weak to Coronavirus Issues Message to Politicians Using Pandemic
https://arizonagunowners.com/index.php/topic,21536.msg234110.html#new

I can see this persons view point on having a AR paltform to protect herself and if she alone & or others with children as protecting her children.
example I posted before " A lioness protects her cubs from harm by any means even killing the attacking predators"

Then the other topic I jump to is  free ar-15 platform for self defense or update on couple using AR for self defense
https://arizonagunowners.com/index.php/topic,20836.msg234648.html#new
This ties into the Castle Doctrine as to where you have the right to defend yourself. A lot of states have this or similar rules.

This is the shit that makes me nervous about defending my own home - and I know that is the intended effect.
Make no mistake, they aren't after the McClosky's they are after you.  Saint Louis needs a resounding defeat in their attempt to do this.

I remember reading about  "The Tueller Rule,"
https://arizonagunowners.com/index.php/topic,14360.msg170634.html#msg170634

21 feet rule that leads to Re: CCW holster training issues!!!!!!!!!!!   https://arizonagunowners.com/index.php/topic,924.msg8520.html#msg8520

Speaking for me only, I have seen and been in situations to where a threat was present, but not to the level of a firearm needed at a certain point (this could be because it deescalated or what not) so the tool gets put away. Think of ARS Title 13 Chapter 4 Justification, 4-421 (Defensive Display). Where you display a gun and then the threat desculates (by leaving of walking away, ect...) and you reholster but you keep and maintain a constant visual on the deescalating threat, in case it turns out to be a trick. You never know.
John
Did the crowd in this case de escalate after they seen the firearm's in question?

So a mob issue brings the next point to Kyle R

https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/statutes/statutes/939/III/49
939.48  Self-defense and defense of others.
(1)  A person is privileged to threaten or intentionally use force against another for the purpose of preventing or terminating what the person reasonably believes to be an unlawful interference with his or her person by such other person. The actor may intentionally use only such force or threat thereof as the actor reasonably believes is necessary to prevent or terminate the interference. The actor may not intentionally use force which is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm unless the actor reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself.
(1m) 

Wisconsin Legislature: 939.49
https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/statutes/statutes/939/III/49
939.48 Annotation A person may employ deadly force against another, if the person reasonably believes that force is necessary to protect a 3rd-person or one's self from imminent death or great bodily harm, without incurring civil liability for injury to the other.

When I read this I remembered the comment from Honest Americans fight back = 2 RIOTERS dead & 1 wounded.
https://arizonagunowners.com/index.php/topic,21224.0.html
From where I sit, it was justified homicide (self defense). The kid was under threat of mob attack and defended himself. Nothing wrong legally, morally, or ethically here IMO.

There is no such thing as Overkill. Die Lehrer Klaus Horstkamp.

"We must reject the idea every time a law's broken, society is guilty rather than the lawbreaker. It is time to restore the American precept that each indiviual is accountable for his actions." Ronald Reagan

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    coelacanth

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    Re: What will the courts say about self defense rulings?
    « Reply #1 on: October 12, 2020, 11:26:37 pm »
    Hard to say how the current spate of cases will play out. The election may affect things somewhat because of what a juror from a jury pool thinks but mostly it depends on the strength of the state's case.  If the prosecution overcharges a defendant the whole thing can get thrown out and then re-tried or if there is a technical flaw in the investigation or the case is just weak sometimes there is an acquittal.  Most convictions are appealed so we should check back here in a year or so to see what, if any, progress has been made.
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    FreeInAZ

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    Re: What will the courts say about self defense rulings?
    « Reply #2 on: October 13, 2020, 01:48:59 am »
    Hmmm? Well politics are not "supposed" to be part of a prosecution EVER! This said, we all know that's crap!
    Our "Justice system" is severely flawed & appears in many locations to have been "bought" by leftists BILLIONAIRES. Bet you check their stock holdings they have investments in the industrial prison complex? So, buy enough DA's & Judges & you get to pick who does hard jail time & who gets to keep that revolving door system raking in the cash! Almost like a King...

    To put it simply, where you live can have a huge bearing on if you will receive a fair shake by our "Just-us" system. When I lived in Detroit, I fully expected to go to jail if I ever had to shoot someone in defense...unless they were of my skin pigment or a very similar shade, even though I self identify as a: lesbian, black, transgendered woman to man, who suffers from a rare skin disorder just like Micheal Jackson did...  :blink :confused
    « Last Edit: October 13, 2020, 02:07:55 am by FreeInAZ »
    Better to die on our feet than live on our knees! "The art of war teaches us to rely not on the likelihood of the enemy's not coming, but on our own readiness to receive him; not on the chance of his not attacking, but rather on the fact that we have made our position unassailable." -Sun Tzu

    FreeInAZ

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    Re: What will the courts say about self defense rulings?
    « Reply #3 on: October 13, 2020, 01:55:10 am »
    Post Script: That's some damn fancy quoting you did their Sir...  :yes

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    « Last Edit: October 13, 2020, 02:02:48 am by FreeInAZ »
    Better to die on our feet than live on our knees! "The art of war teaches us to rely not on the likelihood of the enemy's not coming, but on our own readiness to receive him; not on the chance of his not attacking, but rather on the fact that we have made our position unassailable." -Sun Tzu

    GTGallop

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    Re: What will the courts say about self defense rulings?
    « Reply #4 on: October 13, 2020, 05:46:16 am »
    For starters - KUDOS on finding or remembering all of those posts and then weaving a commonality together into a new post that gets deeper into what each one hit on.  There's some serious talent in that.  I'm not kidding.

    I've read the OP three times now and I like the questions you raise but I'm not sure we have hit on an answer - and it is still early. I'll check back later in the day.  But for now, good job, that is one heavy topic and you have some good side reads and details in it.
    The only thing that separates man from animal is our affinity for toilet paper.
    Once we, as a society, lose that affinity, we begin to descend back into the animal kingdom, and after three or more days you will find the food chain beginning to invert on itself.

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    CMore

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    Re: What will the courts say about self defense rulings?
    « Reply #5 on: October 13, 2020, 08:56:39 am »
    A guy I met once said if he was involved in a self defense shooting if possible he would just leave and hope the police would chalk it up to just another thug shootout and get a new barrel.
    K1CJM

    Josh_357

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    Re: What will the courts say about self defense rulings?
    « Reply #6 on: October 13, 2020, 09:43:27 am »
    My #1 advice to anyone, if anything ever happens criminally involving the police, just shut the hell up and say "I want a lawyer". You don't have to be rude on it but NEVER willingly answer questions without a lawyer present.

    Trust me when I say, the police when you're on the wrong end of being questioned, they are not your friend. They are not there to help you. They will often use what you say, good natured or otherwise against you. Prosecution is even worse, and often a lot of politics plays into Prosecution. Look at the "rich and famous" vs the "Average Joe."

    While we may by and large support the work of law enforcement, there is a lot of politics amongst them and they are often taught these days an "us against them" mentality. Look at how they'll go after the people who support them at protests vs say antifa or blm at the same protests. Even worse in say Portland and the like.

    I don't envy their job but am adamant that if you're even suspected of a crime, don't expect them to be working to your best interest if you're in the interrogation chair.

    To your questions, I think Kyle Rittenhouse will either have charges successfully dismissed or beat them at trial. He will hopefully pull a Nick Sandman and file lawsuits against all of the MSM outlets who defamed him.

    To other legit self defense cases, including the McCloskey's, I believe the same will happen as the mob literally came to them and they defended themselves and their home.

    Self defense is a solid legal principle in this country and I expect will be upheld by the courts.

    However, cases like what just took place in Denver are clear homicide and in violation of the law. The liberal loser who killed the patriot man who was no threat to him are to me a clear murder case and I would hope he be convicted accordingly because based off the evidence I've seen, guilt seems apparent.

    The shooters escalation of pulling a gun in that type of confrontation did not equate to self defense or reasonable self defense, I believe.
    « Last Edit: October 13, 2020, 09:49:01 am by Josh_357 »
    There is nothing more deceptive then an obvious fact. - Sherlock Holmes

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