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Author Topic: Recommendation Needed: Defeating Cannon Safe w/ Failed Electronic Solenoid  (Read 982 times)

GTGallop

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My neighb has a safe and the electronic lock failed - quick search of the internet reveals that Cannon is known for this apparently.  The electronics fail after about 18 to 36 months and slightly less often the solenoid that releases to allow you to operate the handle fails too.  Replacement parts are cheap, but when the solenoid goes, the only way to replace it is to open the door and take the inside panel off to get to the mechanism.

Well that's all fine and good if your solenoid fails in the OPEN position, but this one failed CLOSED.
So the current plan is to take a cut off wheel and open it like a spam can of 7.62x54r.

Before we do that........
Is there an easier way to do this?  Are we making this harder than it should be?  Is there a spot that I can drill on the door that will let me access the solenoid so I can manually push it open without spending a Saturday cutting this open?  Even if by drilling it means cutting a 3" hole with a drill and hole saw?

Additional Info - Safe contains NO GUNS.  But it is full of Ammo.  We are going to use wet towels and oil to keep sparks and heat low.
The only thing that separates man from animal is our affinity for toilet paper.
Once we, as a society, lose that affinity, we begin to descend back into the animal kingdom, and after three or more days you will find the food chain beginning to invert on itself.

https://www.qrz.com/db/n5mkh

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    Woodenword

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    Have you tried contacting Cannon?  Says they have a lifetime warranty.
    https://www.cannonsafe.com/

    GTGallop

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    I'll mention that to the neighbor.
    I know he has replaced the electronic key pad.  I don't know what else he has done.
    The only thing that separates man from animal is our affinity for toilet paper.
    Once we, as a society, lose that affinity, we begin to descend back into the animal kingdom, and after three or more days you will find the food chain beginning to invert on itself.

    https://www.qrz.com/db/n5mkh

    LuckyLeaky

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    Tel him that SGC is having a sidewalk sale this weekend and one of my companies is selling scratch and dent damaged safes there.
    You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life... -Winston Churchill

     Because criminals carry guns, we decent law-abiding citizens should also have guns. Otherwise they will win and the decent people will lose.

    RetroG

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    Does your neighbor want to keep this safe reasonably intact or just want the ammo out of the remains?

    GTGallop

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    Ammo out.
    That's it.
    The only thing that separates man from animal is our affinity for toilet paper.
    Once we, as a society, lose that affinity, we begin to descend back into the animal kingdom, and after three or more days you will find the food chain beginning to invert on itself.

    https://www.qrz.com/db/n5mkh

    Dullahan

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    Has he contacted a locksmith? Maybe it's an easy solve for a pro before you cut into it. Then, if he doesn't want the safe, sell it to recoup the locksmith cost.
    "This gun is Liberty. Hold for certain that the day when you no more have it, you will be returned to slavery." - Toussaint L'Ouverture

    Dullahan

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    Has he contacted a locksmith? Maybe it's an easy solve for a pro before you cut into it. Then, if he doesn't want the safe, sell it to recoup the locksmith cost.
    "This gun is Liberty. Hold for certain that the day when you no more have it, you will be returned to slavery." - Toussaint L'Ouverture

    Casswick

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    Fill it with water then detonate an M80 inside it.

    "...the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging and kicking them into obedience." —Aldous Huxley to George Orwell

    RetroG

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    Ammo out.
    That's it.
    Then I'd cut one of the sides, always thinner than the door.  Unless there is a place on the door you can drill and get to the solenoid without breaking the glass relocker, if it has one.

    I wonder if a plasma cutter would work on metal that thick, and if so, would it be safe with ammo inside the safe?

    Nevahhappen

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    Y'all making me so glad I opted for an old school dial combo lock on the Liberty safe recently ordered.

    JT

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    Don't get smug. I had a dial go bad and had to call a locksmith. The screws are loctited now. :cursing

    Starguco

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    I just read this topic.

    Do not drill it open without any type of lubricant on the drill bits. you can turn the door into a projectile and be deadly.
    This reminds me of the true story another Locksmith told me about. A guy asked a Locksmith to open a safe that his deceased father used. He had no idea what was in it. He drilled it and caused a spark. It ignited the gun powder that his father stored in it. Turned the door into a projectile and killed the guy.

    Then I'd cut one of the sides, always thinner than the door.  Unless there is a place on the door you can drill and get to the solenoid without breaking the glass relocker, if it has one.

    I wonder if a plasma cutter would work on metal that thick, and if so, would it be safe with ammo inside the safe?


    Well that's all fine and good if your solenoid fails in the OPEN position, but this one failed CLOSED.
    So the current plan is to take a cut off wheel and open it like a spam can of 7.62x54r.

    Before we do that........
    Is there an easier way to do this?  Are we making this harder than it should be?  Is there a spot that I can drill on the door that will let me access the solenoid so I can manually push it open without spending a Saturday cutting this open?  Even if by drilling it means cutting a 3" hole with a drill and hole saw?

     But it is full of Ammo.  We are going to use wet towels and oil to keep sparks and heat low.

    NO cut off wheel or plasma cutter!!!!!

    :thumbdown That's just asking for the grim reaper to be standing next to you laughing going look his on my list he's next.  :facepalm

    If you try any of this it's all on you and whomever triers to help.

    Get three very large ratching  straps and wrap the safe with them. top middle and bottom of the door. Not the cheap little ones . The big heavy ones the truck drivers use to secure a load on a flat bed. So maybe  :hmm if you turn the door into a projectile it maybe will not kill you or someone else. ???

    If you can you might be able to get the solenoid to work if you can shock it open. That's going to take a little bit of research to find the correct wire if it can be done.

    option if you can get to the back of the safe you can maybe drill 4 small 1/2 holes with non sparking bits. a very long screw driver a lite and a bore scope. you might be able to remove the back of the lock and push the solenoid up and get it to open up

    a very large electro magnet to pull the solenoid up then try to open

    front method. find the re locker make sure its not tripped  a very small hole to push the solenoid up and open it.
    Once again
     Do not drill it open without any type of lubricant on the drill bits. you can turn the door into a projectile and be deadly. One go to a store with the same safe and measure the throw bolt on the left side of the door in the middle. This is where you could drill a small hole in the left side of the body with lots of lubricant using a non sparking bit. Then maybe you can use a Brass long rod to push the bolts back.

    Follow this advise 1st! They might have a factrory rep come out or a locksmith they would recommend to open it.

    Have you tried contacting Cannon?  Says they have a lifetime warranty.
    https://www.cannonsafe.com/

    There is no such thing as Overkill. Die Lehrer Klaus Horstkamp.

    "We must reject the idea every time a law's broken, society is guilty rather than the lawbreaker. It is time to restore the American precept that each indiviual is accountable for his actions." Ronald Reagan

    Nevahhappen

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    Don't get smug. I had a dial go bad and had to call a locksmith. The screws are loctited now. :cursing
    Smug?

    What led you to conclude that?

    Just glad I went with what I am used to.  I understand electronics, have an EE.   But, I do not think a safe lock is a real good place for them.

    DoD sure stays with mechanical safes, at least in my years when I had to deal with them.
    « Last Edit: May 10, 2021, 10:12:30 pm by Nevahhappen »

    Starguco

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    Smug?

    What led you to conclude that?

    Just glad I went with what I am used to.  I understand electronics, have an EE.   But, I do not think a safe lock is a real good place for them.

    DoD sure stays with mechanical safes, at least in my years when I had to deal with them.
    Oh boy I see this ones might be a interesting one to follow. Now if you really want a challenge to open a safe. Try one with dual custody dials.
    I have more examples if someone wants to read them  :coffee
    There is no such thing as Overkill. Die Lehrer Klaus Horstkamp.

    "We must reject the idea every time a law's broken, society is guilty rather than the lawbreaker. It is time to restore the American precept that each indiviual is accountable for his actions." Ronald Reagan

    GTGallop

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    Neighbor never did reloading and never did black powder.  All cased ammo in boxes.

    Here's my plan...
    Step 1 - Move safe out of garage.  Down by the curb.  Less risk of setting fire to the house and easy access to FD.
    Step 2 - Lay safe on its side.
    Step 3 - About 3" back from door snap a chalk line
    Step 4 - Use plumbers Putty rolled like a snake about 1/4" to the side of the chalk line on each side.  This will create about a 1/4" deep channel of water for cooling the blade, lubricant, and spark arresting.
    Step 6 - Using command strips, lay some 1-by wood next to the plumbers putty for the saw to slide along without disturbing the putty.
    Step 7 - Garden hose fills the channel with water and keeps trickling in.
    Step 8 - Set the depth of the saw to be just barely more than the metal depth. This way we don't cut past the sheetrock / gypsum on the inside which we are counting on as a spark arresting layer.
    Step 9 - Fire that Muther Up! Cutting and lubing.

    Side 2 - Same song, second verse - little bit louder, little bit worse.
    Side 3 - Lather Rinse Repeat.
    The only thing that separates man from animal is our affinity for toilet paper.
    Once we, as a society, lose that affinity, we begin to descend back into the animal kingdom, and after three or more days you will find the food chain beginning to invert on itself.

    https://www.qrz.com/db/n5mkh

    Starguco

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    Neighbor never did reloading and never did black powder.  All cased ammo in boxes.

    Here's my plan...
    Step 1 - Move safe out of garage.  Down by the curb.  Less risk of setting fire to the house and easy access to FD.
    Step 2 - Lay safe on its side.


    WAY too much work

    If it were mine and I had the last option.

    Step 1 Lay safe on its side.
    Step 2 measure half the with of the door back
    Step 3 measure half way up the door where a bolt most likely is.
    Step 4 drill a 1/2 to 3/4 inch hole line intersects with hole saw (use lots of oil) find bolt
    Step 5 use metal bar ( brass preferred) on center of bolt
    Step 6 drive bolt back watch handle open

    There is no such thing as Overkill. Die Lehrer Klaus Horstkamp.

    "We must reject the idea every time a law's broken, society is guilty rather than the lawbreaker. It is time to restore the American precept that each indiviual is accountable for his actions." Ronald Reagan

    GTGallop

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    SEE?
    That's why I ask questions here.  That might work.

    What about the locked solenoid?  Won't it prevent the bolt from moving?
    The only thing that separates man from animal is our affinity for toilet paper.
    Once we, as a society, lose that affinity, we begin to descend back into the animal kingdom, and after three or more days you will find the food chain beginning to invert on itself.

    https://www.qrz.com/db/n5mkh

    Starguco

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    SEE?
    That's why I ask questions here.  That might work.

    What about the locked solenoid?  Won't it prevent the bolt from moving?
    if your @ this stage. Your just using a 4 pound or 10 pound sludge hammer with a proffered brass rod to drive the bolts back. That whole lock assembly is being ripped apart. You are just shearing it away.

    Now that the information of the ammo is assembled and no powder is free. You can take a different approach to opening it from the front. If you had all the tools I have it can be opened by drilling a small hole in the front to get access to the lock itself. Then just lift up on the solenoid and turn the dial.

    Remember that solenoid just needs power to pull the latch up. Then you can turn the dial. The use of a electro magnet is forcing the steel that the solenoid moves by a inducted magnetic field. A external one can also do that if you have the skill set.

    now if the idea of opening with a saw as in say some was watching the Lock Picking Lawyer as their hobby
    New Corona Hobby - Lock Picking By  GTGallop
    (https://arizonagunowners.com/index.php/topic,21256.0.html:hmm

    Remember he had it open and the sentry safes are very thin metal.  :rotfl He had the information of where to cut it and how deep to set the blade.

    Watch the following videos. Their is a lot of information on the video if you know when to stop and look at the design.




    What model is the Cannon Safe? Got a picture? You can send me a PM of it.  :coffee
    There is no such thing as Overkill. Die Lehrer Klaus Horstkamp.

    "We must reject the idea every time a law's broken, society is guilty rather than the lawbreaker. It is time to restore the American precept that each indiviual is accountable for his actions." Ronald Reagan

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